Starting a LARP in Kentucky

[whitefalconiv]

I'm trying to start a new LARP in Louisville, KY and while I have the boffer system and rulebook almost done, and have started buying things like some basic decorations and costume supplies.

I've been in contact with the campsite that hosted the first LARP I went to a few years back and will be working that out in the near future, but I'm not sure what I need to do next.

I have a target size of about 50 players after a year, much more than that and it'll be hard to remember everyone (which is something important to me), but I'm not sure how to handle insurance or if I need to incorporate or any of that.

Financially, I'd like the LARP to be self-sustaining, but I really don't mind spending my own money to cover some of the expenses that come up. I don't want to profit off of the game, I have a job for that.

I would appreciate any pointers or advice some established LARP owners want to give me to help me get this game off the ground.

[whitefalconiv]

After further discussion with the campsite, I know I need insurance for the event, but since the only fees I'll be charging will be to cover the campsite rental and possibly help me cover the insurance depending on how much it costs (the rest of the costs and all the supplies and everything I'm paying for with my own money), so I've got a quote request in at sportsinsurance.com, I don't know how long they'll take to get back to me though.

[dicemistress]

[whitefalconiv]

I went under the "events" section and there's a section for medieval games, which is the closest thing they had listed.

I haven't heard back from them yet, so I may be going to a local insurance broker soon.

[dicemistress]

[whitefalconiv]

Patience is one of those skills that I'm still developing >.>

[weeble1000]

Insurance is something that I have been worried about for my game. I consulted with my lawyer a while back and decided that right now, all I really need is an informed consent form. Essentially it says that the game involves physical activity and that players have read the rulebook and will abide by the rules. Not abiding by the rules could result in more serious physical injury. My worry was personal liability, but it seems that I already have several layers of protection in that regard. However, I was discussing the insurance issue with Joseph Volenti, the owner of NERO International this past weekend at the Origins convention. The new HACKS organization, of which NERO is a part is offering an opportunity for other organizations to become subsidiaries of HACKS. There are several bennefits to this, including some database stuff, advertising, etc. but it also includes their insurance policy. Your players would have to pay an annual membership fee of 20 dollars to cover the insurace, but I think its good for up to 1 million dollars. There is a flat $500.00 fee to become a subsidiary of HACKS as far as I understand. You would really have to get into contact with Volenti about this, but that's what I remember from my conversation.

[dicemistress]

[weeble1000]

Like I said, that's just what I heard when I talked to the guy. I haven't had any problems scheduling sites without insurance so far, so I'm not persoanlly worried about it right now. What Valenti said is a possiblity, and I can't vouch for it at all. If you would like to follow up on it, I'm sure that you could send him an e-mail. If anyone is successful in acquiring insurance for their game, I would certainly be interested in hearing about the provider. One of my primary concerns about insurance is why a provider would carry a LARP game at a reasonable cost, because LARPing is a realtively small and unknown industry.

[headcold]

Hi. I can't really contribute to the insurance question, but I would like to try larping as a way to make some new friends. All my friends are too busy with raising kids to hang out and do any gaming. Can someone hook me up with some info? You can email me at adamwhiteadamwhite AT yahoo.com.

I live in Louisville.

Thanks,
-Adam

[OhioJoe]

Having had 4 LARP games, one for each year of the last four years, and finding insurance for them each time, I might be able to offer insight.

First, you don't need insurance other than to cover yourself for hosting the event, and provided you have each player sign a waiver before the game, and only if you WANT to cover yourself (you have valuable assets that make lawyers salivate.. i.e., they ain't going to go after a student with no money).

The reason is because most event insurance underwriters don't cover PARTICIPANTS, and only spectators/audience members, for such events. Why don't they cover the participants as well? Because there's never a need, beyond the EXACT same need for you to cover all attendees at a Christmas party you host at a third party location. When you participate willingly in an activity, you are responsible for your own injuries. If you want to sue the other guy, so be it, but that happens anyway, without such an event. I.e., if you said "hey guys, let's all play some football over in that field", very few lawyers would take up the case for your buddy that came and broke his leg and tried to sue you, because he'd likely not collect. A LARP is no different, if indeed every one is a participant and willfully engaged in the hijinks. Basically, to get insurance coverage for your LARP of willing participants with some rational is the same rational for getting insurance every time you organize an impromptu football or soccer game.

I say this because all the underwriters ask me the same thing when they are trying to figure out how to cover the participants (most won't even consider it), which is, and usually in an incredulous tone: "Um, why don't you just have them sign a waiver ahead of time?" Basically, they see no need to have insurance to cover them. YOU on the other hand can (and should) get insurance to cover yourself if you have any assets to sue for, and any fear you may get sued by one of the participants. However, keep in mind, even if you are sued, it'd be difficult for them to collect given they WILLFULLY engaged in the games, and further, the waiver is even more. I.e., if you host a Christmas party at your house, and someone falls down your steps for any reason, they *could* sue you and *possibly* collect, but likely not. But if you had all attendees sign a waiver before they came to your party that outlined the risks involved including death, you'd be almost bullet proof.

Finally, there is this issue that I am beyond frustrated about. We are a small private LARP (no outsiders allowed unless invited by a current member, which is kind of easy) and we began in New York back in 1983. About 7 years ago, someone scared someone on the board and they all decided to get insurance to protect themselves (good idea)... but SOMEhow this morphed into getting coverage for every one who played if they got a serious injury while playing the game and couldn't afford the medical bills. Now, the "reason" for this was because we are a tight knit community and we want to 'take care' of any of our fellow players if they get seriously injured. Great idea, and wonderfully generous and all, but it caused the game to tack on a "membership" fee to cover the insurance, thus raising the price of the once-per-year weekend long game from ~$55 to ~75. Now, that may not seem like too much (and really, it isn't considering all food and drink and camping is included in the weekend long game) but it's still enough to make someone think twice about coming if they already are pressed with a tight schedule around game weekend.

To make things worse, we brought the game to Ohio to host a second game for the year. New York then quit having a second game and kinda made the Ohio game the "second game" of the year, only, we cannot legally be any part of their coverage because, well, we're not in New York. So this would mean ANOTHER $800 to get insurance. The problem is, we struggle each year to get enough players to make the game happen (40 minimum are needed) and fortunately, we meet that goal every year and exceed it. But... if we raise the cost we very likely may not. So, here I have to raise the cost of the game, or take an ENORMOUS chunk out of our already tight budget to pay for insurance... all for a very irrational reason (to be generous and helpful to someone who became seriously injured). This reason this is irrational is because it strains our budget, even the New York groups with their membership fees are strained because of the insurance, and such coverage isn’t peer-pressured in the same way for a Christmas party or Wedding invite. It's like EXPECTING a friend who hosts a Christmas party or field football game to get an insurance policy for creating it. Sure, you could do it if everyone decided to chip in $40 to play some backyard football or you had tons of money, and yes indeed it’d be darned generous and caring of you, and sure, but who in the world would pay, first, and second, expect an insurance policy from the organizer?? It's just common sense, if you go to a party or friend sponsored football game, you take the risks, and ethically don’t sue him for hosting it if you get seriously injured (unless he directly by willful negligence inflicts the bodily injury on you, but that's not the issue here).

And to make the whole thing horrible, now that the "idea" in New York has morphed the way it has, it is now a "Gasp.. you aren't going to have insurance?!?" response if I don't have such insurance on my LARP. It's like the idea is you are a bad person and unwise and "shame shame" if you don't, as if you are being selfish and not caring about your fellow players (which is NOT the case at all). If I don’t get a policy for a Christmas party I organize at a third part location for the SAME groups of people, I'd get no such shameful looks, but because it's a LARP, suddenly I do? So, if I don't get the insurance, many of them might not come down to Ohio to play (not out of spite, but likely out of feeling the insurance is NECESSARY to cover the participants.) and we need them to come to make our numbers. So, to keep them coming and supporting our OHIO game, I have to take the huge chunk out of our game budget, and keep the fees reasonable for new players, which we are desperately trying to get, I do get the insurance and will always get the insurance until I can get some of the New Yorkers to understand why you don't pay out crap loads of money to have a policy that first is not needed, and second, is ENORMOUSLY generous and shouldn't be something we players REQUIRE of a game designer who is already struggling with funds.

And the added kicker is that since this is not a “one time thing” and is a yearly event, if a player, who willfully comes to the game, willfully signs a wavier that explains all the dangers and says “I will not sue you” and who is supposed to be in the mindset of “community” and not try to hurt the game, decided to make a claim, our rates for the next game will be enormous and thus prevent the game from continuing on. All because someone, who should understand it would end the game, would make a claim on the insurance. Therefore, the insurance each year of hundreds of dollars, added up, is all for one person who makes a claim. The players, each of us, should have our OWN insurance and if not, make our own decisions about attending such an event, or ANY event, where we might get injured. I would argue many of these same players go to events all the time where they are not covered, and fully understand their OWN insurance will cover it. Why, then, tax the community to provide a service that a player shouldn’t want anyway?

OJ

[RyanPaddy]

Every time larp insurance comes up here, I 'm thankful that I'm living in New Zealand.

Anyone who has an accident here has the treatment payed for by our government under our accident compensation laws. You just pay a small handling fee.

I recently had a minor accident snowboarding, and went to an emergency centre for treatment. I payed a NZ$50 (around US$30) fee, and have had treatment and several dressing changes since. I would have paid the same whether it had been a broken bone, punctured organ... whatever. Our public healthcare can be slow sometimes (there is private care if you want things faster) especially if you need a major operation, but overall I'm thankful for such a wonderful public health system.

We have no insurance and no waivers at our larp. Anyone who has an accident will get cared for by the public health system, so it would be pointless. The only possibly relevant insurance would be to cover damage to venues, and our venues have that themselves.

[dicemistress]

Rub it in Ryan It would be nice to have something of that nature here in the States. Less worry about insurance and waivers and more focus on the game.
_________________
Mortalis Games /// Journeys to another world

[dicemistress]

[Ottosson]

ryan it works the same in sweden