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Shade's Live Action Role Playing (LARP) List: Forums
Shade's LARP List :: View topic - My eyes have been opened! Renting vs Owning.
Joined: Sep 19, 2004 Posts: 9 Location: New Hampshire, USA
Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 10:42 pm Post subject:
Wysterya - I apologize for not remembering you. In my defense, I have probably played more than a dozen larps. How did we meet?
(Understanding is a three-edged sword.)
Eldrad - I've been thinking of ways to get a LARP camp going (hasn't everyone?). Up here in the wilds of Massachusetts, camps are much more expensive, like 1.4mil. I've got somewhat of a different plan of attack which might possibly break even or maybe bring in a small profit. $200,000 isn't too hard to raise.
Joined: Apr 27, 2004 Posts: 30 Location: San Antonio, Texas, USA
Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 1:11 pm Post subject:
Barrabas -If your initials are JJ, and you are named after the character in "The Jew of Malta" (except he only had one "r"), then we know each other quite well. _________________ Determination is a two-edged sword
Barrabas
SO what is your plan? I have quite a few mabye we could all share a few trade secrets. _________________ I know the pieces fit! I watched them fall away!
Joined: Sep 19, 2004 Posts: 9 Location: New Hampshire, USA
Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 11:53 pm Post subject: Larp sites and such
Yep, "Jew of Malta" it is. (That's a play by Christopher Marlowe).
Madame, I believe you have the advantage of me. And to whom might I have the pleasure of speaking?
===============================================
Eldrad (and others): That sounds like a fascinating topic for discussion. I'd love to hear thoughts from other people. I'll start.
I've just got done with running a LARP for the past 4 years. They field 80-or-so people per event all weekend for $70 a head. Some of their expense is camp rental, which is $1600 per event. And that's cheap in the area. They run 6 weekend events a year.
As hard as I try, I can't come up with a workable business plan [for purchasing a site] that breaks even, much less makes money, even with those entry fees. Even with the best possible circumstances, where you rent out the camp to religious groups during off times and allow the local schools to hold dances and the kids to hold raves, it only makes a little profit. Not enough to even consider working yourself to death over.
Add to that the overwhelming amount of work needed to run your game and the whole thing amounts to digging yourself an early grave for just about nothing. No kidding.
(And yes, I'm aware that NERO owned a site for several years. And they don't now. And there's reasons for all that.)
So, instead my thought was to buy a camp and *rent* it out to the local larps. They might be willing to pay $2000 per event (which is more typical in out area) for a camp that was LARP friendly and had many advantages over their current site.
So, all you need to do is purchase a site and keep it up, and let the individual LARP games use it and pay you money. This immediately frees you up from running your game, and it means you might have a more steady income since you could rent out to several games on consecutive weekends.
So instead of running a game, you concentrate on making some neat LARP friendly things. Such as a) On-site storage for the games b) On-site food kitchen facilities c) On-site construction of permanent structures which are LARP interesting d) permanent weekend lodging for staff members and NPCs, and so on. Credit card purchases for registration. Free websites with online purchase and character update. Stuff like that. Things which take some of the logistical burden off of the game owners and frees them up to concentrate on their game.
If you do up the numbers for mortgage, insurance, useable weekends (not all weekends can have games), utilities, materials, and a little left over for on-site staff, it becomes doable.
So much so, that I was seriously considering doing it recently. If a campsite comes up for sale in my area and it's a really *good* basis for this, I'd agonize over it big time. And maybe go for it. It'd have to be a really good fit for the requirements, though.
First one person (or a few) gets the land (10 acres or more), it is in his/her name and it is formed into a corporation.
Second get members at $50 (or whatever a month) a month to join and they are allowed to build a structure for LARP use. As it grows so does it's ambience. As it gets bigger it will gain more people. If no LARP is going on then people can just hang out.
To protect your park let no other LARP system use it.
Have events at least 6 times a year ran by the corp and a few more ran by the members.
Have control or your fingers in all concessions, boffers sold, garb stores ect. but not too much. At least 20% in concessions (25% perfered) .
These are a few of my untested ideas. _________________ I know the pieces fit! I watched them fall away!
Joined: Jul 12, 2002 Posts: 1060 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2004 4:04 pm Post subject:
I'm more interested in having a perfect location to run medieval games than necessarily making money out of the venue. I think that focusing on profit will necessitate taking shortcuts on the accuracy of the buildings, and for me that would take the point out of it.
If you forget about making profit out of the venue then there is another possibility. Form a non-profit "living history site" organisation with the mission of building a venue that will support historical education, arts, and entertainment. Look for a land grant from a local government body as a charitable group that will employ people in the area, give youth positive activities, and bring people into the area. I don't know what the USA is like, but here we have a fair number of grants available for charity, such as lotteries grants. Apply for everything you can.
Get your local historical reenactment groups involved in the creation of the site. They have a vested interest in learning & practicing medieval arts including building creation, and they'll be more inclined to be part of a non-profit, non-larp-specific effort that focuses on historical accuracy, than a for-profit larp group.
Then rent the site out to LARPs (including your own, which could be for-profit), SCA, other historical reenactors, ren fairs if it's large enough, weddings, parties, etc. Because you've focused on medieval accuracy, you've got a site with the broadest possible appeal. Run educational days where you invite local schools to the site and you have historical reenactors dressed up and demonstrating medieval arts and crafts. Run open days for the public with stalls selling things (like a mini ren fair).
Of course, if you find that organising such a site is taking up a lot of your time and the organisation has some money allocated, you could take a wage. Non-profit does not mean that employees don't get paid. But don't take this approach looking for money.
That is a good idea for a Midieval themed LARP, but what about modern/sci-fi?
I guess you could try to run a regular campground, or maybe an airsoft/paintball park. What would be cool would be a campground with some airsoft park structures here and there, thus making it dually operable.
[edit] I guess my goal is not to directly make money off of my game, but at least do something directly related to it that I will enjoy. That could be anything from the capground/park idea to running a LARP store and selling latex weapons and stuff as 'novelties'. _________________ Where were you when they began to walk?
They Walk Among Us
"You are what you eat....And I'm a human"
"Having a Paladin tell a monster to go screw himself doesn't exactly constitute roleplaying"
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