Universal Fantasy Larp Rules

[Eldrad]

Maybe there is a different crowd here that would adopt this idea.

A UFLR free to the public. Free to use for profit or for charity. Public domain if you will.

Let us start with some ground rules.
Must stay fairly simple.
Must be easy to learn.
Must have many options to build almost any kind of fantasy character.
Must have simple math or do away with math all together.

First poll is Location or Hit Point?

Locational: The body takes damage wherever hit. Could be tracked by any hit does damage or hit points but gets real confusing fast in large combats.

Hit Points: When they go to zero you are dead or knocked out.

Locational with hit points in each location: As above on the location.

A hit point buffer: A combination of above.
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I know the pieces fit! I watched them fall away!

[BaronBlackRose]

Like I said in the other one. There are groups who already use one or the other.
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Just when you thought the worse was over. Here I am. :0)

[Lig]

The answer is pretty simple - while people might have a preference for locational or global hits, the mathematically simplest method is global. This can take a bit of getting your head round, but look at these numbers.

To work out the number of possible states in a system (ie. the combination of possible injuries the character can have), we take each statistic and multiply them together.

So, if we have 5 body locations, each of which can be 2 points, then we have 2*2*2*2*2=32 possible combinations, even though the total number of hits is 5*2=10. Alternatively, if we have one global pool of 10 hit points, there are only ten possible combinations of injury.

This doesn't seem too bad, does it - 32 combinations of injury aren't so bad, are they? Now add armour. Lets say that armour is again 5 locations of 2 hits each. We have to combine body hit points and armour hit points to work out the number of possible states - that effectively becomes 10 locations, each with 2 points. So the maths is 2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2=1024. Alternatively, with 10 global body hits, and 10 global armour hits, we have 10*10=100 possible combinations.

There are obviously differences in play and game balance between these two methods, but in terms of mathematical simplicity and ease of learning, there is only one choice. Many larpers are used to locational hits, but to an outsider joining the hobby, I don't think it is nearly as easy to learn as people think.

The other benefit of this approach is that you can turn global hits into a commodity - for example, the system I've recently written has global hits which are used by fighters, and by spellcasters, who have to sacrifice health for magic. Healing is effectively done by transferring the casters health into the target. It isn't impossible to do this kind of thing with locational hits, of course, but it is more intimidating to a new player reading the rules.

The key thing is for each aspect of the game to consist of modular elements that can be connected and swapped around. Less statistics, but each having multiple uses. From this, all sorts of interesting conflicts and collaborations can be formed - for example, in the example of the game I wrote, called Carum, by combining the statistic for healing, magic, combat and the production of blood (an ingame item), we haven't reduced the choices within the game, we have expanded them. Our players have to think carefully about how they create their character, and how they then use their hit points. As it happens, they don't heal their hits overnight, so they really do have to ration them! Different strategies of using hit points equate with very different characters - a full-on warrior might choose not to waste hits by casting spells; likewise, a full-on mage might avoid combat to save up their hits for spellcasting. and if they run into battle casting spells, they suddenly find themselves without any hit points!

Some might chime in with concerns about the "realism" of locational vs global hits, but let us be honest with ourselves, no larp rule is "realistic". The only realism in larp is the ability to interact with the gameworld as it appears to you, rather than spend time thinking about rules. The human mind has a limited capacity for remembering discrete numbers - 10 seperate numbers is a lot to remember when you are trying to enjoy yourself, walk through the woods, and talk to your companions.

I have played and run events using various types of global and locational systems, so I am talking from experience. The very best system is "if someone hits you, fall over and die". Then spend the event not getting hit

[Eldrad]

What about a locational hit system with no numbers?

For instance light medium and heavy armors versus weapons that do light medium and heavy damage.

If you hit someone in an area without the right level of damage you don't hurt the location hit.

Some training allows some to do more damage with a lesser weapon. This would mean in some cases you could not hurt a very heavily armored enemy and have to run away or talk your way out of it.

Magic weapons slice through any armor.

The Universal system must be able to be learned in minutes and not have a thick rulebook...
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I know the pieces fit! I watched them fall away!

[Lig]

I think you are putting the cart before the horse. Let's start from the beginning.

The simplest possible rule is "decide how you are effected when hit". This is apparently common in Scandanavian and some European larps.

The next simplest is "if someone hits you, you start to die. Here is how you die...etc...etc.

Then, there is "if someone hits you X times, you start to die. Here is how you die...etc...etc.

Next is, "you have several body locations, if some parts are hit, you start to die, if other parts are hit, they are disabled. Here is how you die...etc...etc.

Adding armour is another level of complexity again, particularly if it works in a different way to body hits.

Even if you work on a "numberless" system, the rules will inevitably specify certain states of injury. Having "uninjury", "crippled" and "dying" are really just "1", "2" and "3". Ergo, it's still possible to analyse it as a numerical system.

Below is the player-facing rules of a system I developed for some friends a couple of months ago. I'm not by any means suggesting that it fulfills your needs, but I hope it serves to show that you can do something on a single side of A4.

*A basic character has 10 points of Constitution, and 5 each of Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma. These are called Statistics. When you created your character, you distributed 5 additional points to the Statistic(s) of your choice. These Statistics can improve over the course of the events.
*Your Constitution statistic gives you an equal number of Constitution Points (CP's), which are your hit points AND the source of energy for spellcasting. This is a GLOBAL hit point system.
*When you are injured by a weapon, your CP's will reduce by 1 point, unless otherwise specified.
*When you are injured by a spell or potion, the amount of damage will be specified.
*When you CAST an Elemental or Ethereal spell, your CP's will be reduced by 1 point, or a higher number, if specified.
*When you reach ZERO CP's, you fall unconscious and will die within 2 minutes, unless healed. Your CP's cannot be healed above your Constitution Statistic, although magical improvements are possible.
*Non-metal weapons do 1 point of damage.
*Non-metal armour provides 1 point of protection, which is lost if the phys-rep is hit. Armour is NOT global, nor is it locational. Instead, each separate piece of armour has its own 1 point of protection, and must be repaired separately. There is no limit on how many pieces of armour you can wear; players are trusted not to take the piss.
*Spells and poison ignore armour.
*Your character can start with any non-metal weapons and non-metal armour that they wish.
*IC calls:
-Time Stop – effected characters must stay still, but are aware of what is happening
-Resist – if the character can resist some or all of an effect, they will use this call
-Wound/Damage – Reduce your CP's by the number the spellcaster calls with this effect
-There may be other calls used, eg. Sleep. These effects will usually last for as long as the spellcaster keeps chanting, and their effects should be self-evident.
-“Mass” - if this call is used in combination with another effect, like Damage, all characters nearby will receive that effect, including the casters allies.
*OC calls:
-Time In – game starts
-Time Out – game ends
-Time Freeze – stay still, close eyes, pretend it isn't happening
-Man Down – stop play to ensure that no-one is badly injured
*Players must carry a notebook in which their character details are written, and in which they record recipes and Skills...etc
*Any characters can learn skills, recipes and spells by writing the details in their book, but they cannot use that knowledge until the listed Statistic is high enough.
*To teach one of these recipes/spells/skills, the character must know the recipe AND use it in front of their student.
*There is lots to do and see, and failing that, players should find a Facilie and ask for advice.

[Eldrad]

In the original ULS post we came up with the default 3HP starting out for everyone.

Max 10 HPs

MOST weapons only do 1 point of damage unless specified.

Special Attacks that do more than 1 damage.

Weird!, there seems to be very little traction on this subject. I thought that a free public domain system that could not be owned but shared from group to group would be very attractive to many LARPers out there but it seems everyone is satisfied playing their own system with their own people. Or am I wrong?
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I know the pieces fit! I watched them fall away!

[Lig]

Something I've noticed from talking to US larpers on here is an assumption that rules should be available in that form. Larp systems seem more like brands than individual games, which is the absolute opposite of games here - to the point that one of the larger UK larp organisations runs two different games using totally different gameworlds and rule systems!

Maybe it is this interest in the "brand" that makes people less eager to get involved in an "open source" kind of larp system. Personally, I think what you want to do is a good thing IF, and only if, it is a "build your own larp" framework, so that people can take the basic rules and alter them to their needs.

I can't imagine running a larp game without writing a totally custom system, focused entirely on the needs of that particular event. The rules I posted above are for a game about firstborn elves at the beginning of a world's history, who hunt and skirmish and gather ingredients, but probably wouldn't be much good for an epic battle game (there are a lot of rules which the players don't actually need to read in my post above).

In England, if you turn up at a larp event, and tell people that you're planning on running a game of your own, half a dozen people would offer to write the rules and plot for you, and at some games, the organisers would be just as eager to come and play.

The trouble with the phrase "universal system" is that it suggests that it will be all things to all people, which just isn't possible, or, IMO, desirable. But the framework for designing a game might be. Something to compete with the Scandanavian anti-system theoretical rhetoric.

Discussion of the way that rules effect play, and advice on how to run playtests, would be very useful for people who haven't ever written a game before.

They also need to realise that every game they run will be imperfect, and the next system they right will be better, but still imperfect!

[BaronBlackRose]

speaking of larp rules. I fumbled across an old copy of the players guide from Portly Pixie. and their larp event Kingship. Once I find it again after I am done unpacking. I'll let you guys know how their system used to run.
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Just when you thought the worse was over. Here I am. :0)

[Eldrad]

Baronblackrose: Hope to see it!

Lig: UFLS could be built to be an everything fantasy system from LARP to LACS. I would love a free system that everyone could agree upon and I know it can be done if people pull away from their preconceptions of only their way is right.
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I know the pieces fit! I watched them fall away!

[BaronBlackRose]

Eldrad too bad majority of the larp groups out there only believe that their way is the only way. American mostly anyways.
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Just when you thought the worse was over. Here I am. :0)

[Lig]

This isn't in any way meant to be a criticism of you, so I hope it doesn't come across as too aggressive! It's great that someone is talking about this kind of thing.
............
You see, what I'm getting at is that there isn't an ultimate way to do it - everyone's way of doing it might well be the right way for them to do it, at that time and in that place.

There's a certain barrier that we have to break through, where people say "we've always done it that way" - that's a preconception that needs to change, for sure, but we can't, and shouldn't, all be using the same rules.

Take Profound Decisions, one of the big UK companies. They currently run Maelstrom and Odyssey, and are prepping another for next year, called Empire. The first game is about colonists in a flintlocks and frockcoats setting, the second is ancient Greece, Rome...etc, and the third will be a medieval game of high politics and wars against barbarians. I'm one of the organisers for a small game called Carum, about a completely new world populated by firstborn elves. Another group hiring my friends site this weekend is running a Warhammer 40K campaign.

Under what circumstances would the same rule system be appropriate for all these different games? One type of system can't support the different "feel" that they each need to have. If one game is about players assassinating each other in the dark, and another is about heroes slaying hoards of goblins with a single strike, they need different system mechanics to achieve this.

I remember a few years ago that there was a movement in Europe to create a pan-European system on this sort of basis, so that players could port their character across several countries. I've never heard about it since, probably because there isn't a market for it.

You basically have enough data to publish a generic one-size fits all system, because that system would literally need to be so empty and featureless to please everyone. You don't need anyone elses input to write it.

As I said above, the best thing you could do is develop a "build your own larp" kit. The first step to doing this would be to catalogue the various possible ways of dealing with combat, including "there is no combat" and "there is no physical combat" and "decide how badly injured you are". There are games that run using those approaches, although full contact live roleplay with hit points is probably the most common approach.

Most systems are modular in nature - sections can be chopped and changed based on what people want - eg. the way that potions are made is seperate from what they do, and can be designed (to an extent) seperately to the hit points, so long as they link into to the hit points in some way.

What is certain is that minor variations will effect the way the game plays out. If the players have to harvest each others blood to make potions, it will feel a lot different to whether they have to gather leaves from the forest to do it.

I suppose that it all comes down to what you think "system" is for. So, what do you think it is for?

[Eldrad]

Not too aggressive at all. I love discussion and debate!

To answer the most important question "What is this set of rules for?"

Answer: To bridge LARP groups with a free set of rules that are public domain for use for any reason (profit and not for profit). One that could facilitate treachery and intrigue, dungeon crawling, and mass battles.

I am beginning to see this is a near impossible task from the comments so far but am I the only one to think how great it would be to use a one size fits all rule set?
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I know the pieces fit! I watched them fall away!

[Lig]

What I meant was not "what is THIS system?", but "what is SYSTEM?". What does the word mean to you, what is it's function in a game?

We could have a game without a system of any sort, but this would be improve theatre, in my opinion. Some European games claim to be "systemless", and there's a strong anti-system rhetoric amongst the Scandanavian theory community (or there was last time I looked, haven't read any Knutepunkt stuff recently). I think very few games are systemless, they usually have some text describing the norms of play.

The most obvious things answers I can see to "what is system?" are Regulation and Encouragement.

Regulation is there to limit, to stop cheating, to avoid excessive use of ingame power. Hit points, spells per day, and so on. Encouragement is a bit different, it's there to promote certain types of behaviour. In my last post, the example of potions needing blood or leaves is an example of encouragement. The first option is going to encourage people to hunt each other, the second option is going to encourage people to forage.

Rather than regulating how many times happen something can happen (a potion is made), encouragement is given to roleplay a certain way in return for a certain result.

Ideally, a system probably shouldn't consist of one or the other, it should have both. Eg. Hit points to *regulate* how much injury people can have in one fight, and then a healing ritual which encourages roleplay as a means of getting hitpoints back.

Are there other reasons for having system? I'm a bit of a gamist/simulationist, so are there narrative reasons for use of system? Again, what do YOU think system is for?

[RyanPaddy]

Seeing both sides of this.

On the one hand, Lig is right that systems should be designed for a purpose, and the purpose of each larp is a little (or a lot) different.

On the other hand, a hell of a lot of fantasy larp is very stock. It's about the challenges of adventure and inter-factional conflict, and it's about it in quite generic ways based on a stereotyped understanding of the fantasy genre.

In the real world, most variation between generic fantasy larp rules isn't because they're designed for different purposes. It's because "this is the way we do it around here." The designers may say their approach is a solution to their needs, and in some cases it's accurate, but just as (more?) often that's just a rationalisation. It's habit and culture.

Therefore, you could in theory write a flexible generic fantasy larp rule set, and it might work with a lot of existing or new generic fantasy larps. The advantage would be breaking down barriers between larp groups, reducing learning time when moving from one to another, giving an example of a ruleset that isn't full of stupid bollocks rules and useless complexity, that kind of thing.

The main barrier would be the idea that "our system is better". So the target market would most likely be new larp groups, who aren't set in a habit.

Which raises a different point. If you're targeting new larp organisers then it's not particularly helpful to just give them a flavourless, generic fantasy system with no setting and no advice on how to run a larp. So, what I'd be inclined to suggest is actually publishing ready-to-run fantasy larp campaigns, including all the setting and advice that a new organiser needs. It could be commercial in order to repay the efforts and costs of publishing it. At their core, base these larp publications on a generic fantasy larp ruleset. And then publish those rules stand-alone without the setting, in a generic form, in the public domain and allow anyone to create games based on them. A little like how D20 was the core of D&D3, and anyone could use it (but without the licensing bollocks of D20).

My prediction is that new larp runners will be more attracted to the ready-to-run-larp publications. If enough people start playing them, then experienced larp runners may take the core system that you publish in the public domain and write more games based on it. Almost nobody will "run" the core system, because it's settingless, flavourless and unrunnable. But it could be a good stepping stone for people who want a well-known system, or who are totally new to larp design and want a solid nub to base their game on.

[Lig]

I think Ryan has hit the nail on the head here. The model lets you write a generic free rule system, but then allows expansion into a paid model (or you could do those for free, but it would be a lot of work!).

The outline of how combat, magic, potions..etc work would be in the generic core system, but then different tables of spells, magical ingredients, weapons would be in different source books, so someone wanting to go down a medieval horror route could pick a different source book to the person wanting heroic ancient greek monster-hunting, or whatever.

You could even do it such a way that the source books don't overlap each other much, so people could use several source books within their larp (eg. maybe the first example has a horror bestiary and lots of blood-based magic, the other having unit-tactics bonuses and ritual magic.